Three of Rye’s public toilets are about to be partly converted into commercial businesses following a decision by Rother District Council. There’s a cycle hub planned for the toilets on Rye Salts, with the buildings on the Strand and in the Gun Garden hosting coffee shops. The Council says it’s the only way to ensure the toilets’ future.
The team at Rye Heritage Centre aren’t so sure. Manager Simon Parsons says the volunteers want answers – and re-assurances.
When we first heard the news about Rother’s proposals to lease out the public toilets at Strand Quay to a coffee vendor, staff and volunteers at Rye Heritage Centre reacted with concern having experienced the wrath of visitors during the long closure of the previous season until the toilets were temporarily re-opened by Rye Town Council.
Our initial thoughts, like most people I guess, were that no business would be foolish enough to invest the estimated £10-15k in the improvement and conversion of the toilets let alone be attracted by a 5% pa levy on their takings as well as a £5,000 a year lease.
However it was confirmed in August that a lessee had been found and contracts were about to be signed, the toilets would be temporarily closed in September for works to be carried out and indeed they would be operated as a coffee outlet with public toilet facilities! Whilst it remains unclear to most what the attraction of buying a coffee from an operational toilet block will be, we understand that officers at Rother are convinced this is a viable proposition and it would appear that at least one business person agrees.
Hearing this news, I was asked by the volunteers to seek some answers as to how this would affect us in terms of dealing with the inevitable queries and comments from visitors. Despite the fact that we are independent of any council or local authority and do not provide a tourist information facility, visitor perception and expectation is that we are. We are already faced with a daily stream of generally unanswerable questions and referrals to the proper authority – a time-consuming interruption to our daily operation.
At around the same time, Rye News carried an article about the general proposals for public conveniences in Rother, including the bizarre but now dropped idea that one block at Winchelsea Beach be converted into a beach-side sauna. Rother District Councillor Si McGurk posted a comment suggesting that he had received widespread support form the community for the proposals. I challenged this in Rye News but also approached Cllr McGurk to visit us at the centre and meet with a selection of volunteers and trustees to answer a growing list of questions to help manage visitor fallout.
Cllr McGurk agreed to the meeting and answered our questions as best as he could based on his knowledge, and as these were not definitive, we asked that he took the points away for more detailed responses from Rother Officers.
Although it took a considerable number of weeks for a response to come from Rother they did respond and our questions and their answers are shown below. We have expressed both our confusion that so many answers appear to be unconfirmed given the prior announcement that a lease had been agreed, and to ask for some news of timings. We need to prepare and, at the very least, notify various group visit organisers such as TUI, who bring numerous cruise ship passengers to the centre, about the public facilities that will be available nearby.
It seems no lease has been signed and there appears to be no news when (and if) it will be. Rother suggest it may be next year before things happen so what about this winter? Will the toilets stay open? It doesn’t seem to be in anyone’s budget right now.
We’ve also pointed out that Rother’s assumption there will be no issues does not reflect our previous experiences and cannot be the result of any local consultation.
For the moment we can only resolve that we deal with the public with empathy as required and ensure that we report any issues we observe to Rother regularly – we expect to be busy. Management and trustees will of course offer every support to our fantastic volunteers when dealing with visitors discomfort, sometimes genuine distress, and occasional abuse.
We probably won’t be drinking the coffee, especially as we are well served with plenty of establishments in the immediate vicinity. Cllr McGurk has offered to join the volunteer team for a day to experience things for himself.
I would like to thank Cllr McGurk for his efforts in this matter – it just goes to show that councillors will respond when they are contacted. I might wish they were at times more proactive, but it’s good to know that in this instance we’ve been heard.
Here are the questions and answers:
How many toilet cubicles will remain in operation?
Not yet confirmed. Minimum will be disabled and one other.
What will be the opening days and hours, and will they operate year-round?
Year-round but detailed opening hours not yet confirmed.
Will separate disabled-access facilities continue?
Yes.
When will the lease be signed and work start?
No lease has been entered into yet. Discussions with the operator are still ongoing. Realistically, with planning consent still required, there will be no works this year so the earliest date for works will now likely be after summer 2026.
Who will monitor adherence to opening hours?
RDC as landlord. We will be keen for locals to keep us updated though.
Who will monitor cleanliness?
Same as above.
Will the toilets become unisex?
Not yet confirmed. Possible.
Will lessees be able to charge for use?
The lease will specifically exclude the possibility of ever charging.
What contingency plans exist for business failure?
Two things – remarket for a new commercial operator. Second, we would look to get these open via the town council in the interim.
What action will be taken for non-compliance with lease terms?
We would formally seek that the lease is adhered to and forfeit it for non-compliance if that failed. If this is ever required it may not be legally ‘easy’ but we will have relatively strong control.
How was the cost–benefit analysis of the lease plan conducted, and what were its results?
The cost benefit analysis is apparent – the council does not have the money available to continue to run public loos or to invest in the buildings. This proposal gives these public loos a long-term viable future at no cost to the public as well as rental income. The principle remains that having an active business on site should improve the situation compared to the current unmanned toilets. It will discourage anti-social behaviour.
Can a dedicated Rother phone number be provided for visitor complaints?
I do not think that a dedicated number can be provided but our usual complaints / phone service is in place.
Can we have a dedicated Rother officer’s email for reporting observations?
We can do that. To be decided who.
What support will Rother provide to local traders, including signage clarifying responsibilities and directing complaints appropriately?
This assumes there will be issues. There is no reason to think there will be issues and the first port of call should really be the business operating the loos.
Rye News welcomes all opinion pieces on issues that affect life in Rye and the surrounding villages. If you would like to add yours to our Opinions section email info@ryenews.org.uk.
Image Credits: Peter Connock , Simon Parsons , Anthony Kimber .
Since submitting this article Rother have further muddied the waters and informed us, via Cllr McGurk, that they are still in discussions with the prospective lessee and transfer is not likely to happen until at least the end of the 2026 Summer season. I have now written to Rye Town Council to find out whether they will continue to operate and maintain the toilets on Rothers behalf from Rye Town Council’s budget or whether we can expect closure. I await their response
Want to comment or complain?
Often as not, RDC insist on a reply to their communications in 30 days.
Below is from their auto-response on a query I made.
DoNotReply
Mon, Sep 1, 4:42 PM
to me
Thank you for your email. At present we are experiencing very high volumes of contact and are prioritising items according to the urgency of the situation. Please be aware that some items may take up to 12 weeks to process.
Yes folks up to 12 WEEKS?
Has a turnstile paying option not been considered? Better to keep loos and pay a minimum charge rather that £4 for a coffee in order to have a wee! and unwelcome competition for our current cafe providers.
Long term income from turnstile use for RDC which would quickly cover the cost of refurbishment and beyond for ongoing costs.
Come on Rother, think outside the box
Teresa Andrews
Excellent suggestion. I had previously suggested pay toilets for the station toilets across from the rail station but received no response. In continental Europe pay toilets are very common and most often clean. Rye does not need another coffee shop to compete with the many lovely ones we already have.
Apparently charging is not an option for the lessee and they will have to provide free access to the WCs – purchasing a coffee is not obligatory. As for Rother installing turnstiles which would seem sensible I assume Rother are not prepared to invest in their installation as they are not prepared to even provide a convenience at all. They are obliged, however, under law, to obtain maximum value for their assets. I believe they consider this option preferable to just selling off the buildings, they have no legal obligation to provide public conveniences at all – in my opinion a matter that should be looked at by national government, especially in this age of disability rights
“Q: How was the cost–benefit analysis of the lease plan conducted, and what were its results?
A: The cost benefit analysis is apparent – the council does not have the money available to continue to run public loos or to invest in the buildings.”
???
Is this the case throughout Rother District and other District councils? RDC has one of the highest rates relative to income in the country.
To me it seems clear that it is “The Officers” at RDC who need replacing, since the are unable/ refuse to execute a most basic task they have been charged with: To manage Rye’s toilets!
Replace them with those who can.
Furthermore…: If RDC are going into business leasing properties to people, presumably that should result in a substantial reduction in taxes, right?! Or will the income be used for RDC managerial wage increases?
What do other coffe shop owners think about the competition from the pending council-owned cafes?
How much coffee are people drinking these days? Rye is already awash with coffee shops. Is this really the only beverage anyone can come up with to create a business?
What would be the name. The Wee Cafe.!! Or even The Cafe at Pooh Corner, what a lovely picture it conjures up. Why another coffee shop when as we have 2 warm welcoming ones close by. Where’s the sense but I guess Money comes before anything else.
Let’s hope the business owner comes up with something imaginative, like “The Latte Latrine” with a catchy slogan… need a wee? need a poo? come and have a coffee too!
Given public toilets were always a high priority for residents and visitors, one wonders if the money saved was worth the further erosion of trust in the leadership at Rother District Council. They have Kafkaesque complaints procedures. Perhaps Cllr McCurk could encourage Rother Officers to consider a formal customer satisfaction survey on the subject and the harm being caused to residents loss of amenity?
… Plus the loss of customers from already established Cafes in Rye.
So who would be responsible for cleaning the actual toilets?
If that remains managed by the council, somehow I suspect coffee won’t be the only thing people will be smelling…